Episode 6: 2 Women Continued… What Happens After Surgery and Will I Ever Run Again?

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You know how precious our life is? How do you not do simple things because it's painful and and it's scary when you know, oh, it's time to do the thing. Darn it, I don't want to do the thing. You know how important it is. You're doing the things that you're supposed to be doing. And when you do that, you are gonna come out of it a lot better. My surgeon was very honest. He said, We're we're gonna fix you, but you won't be able to do the same things as you did prior. That's hard. You have to change that mindset of your level is here, and you're still gonna be able to go back and do it. It just may not look the same. I struggled with that, but I get to wake up every single morning and I get to run and do the things that I love.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Welcome to Imperfect Heart, a place for you to join me, Jeff Holden, in conversations, discussions, and dialogue about our hearts and the impact myocardial bridges have on them. We'll talk with healthcare professionals, those in related fields that support our condition, and others just like us with stories of their myocardial bridge experiences. It's my intention for this content to inform, educate, entertain, and even motivate or inspire you in your personal journey on dealing with a myocardial bridge. Most importantly is to have you leave each episode with hope, knowing you're not alone and that what you're experiencing is real. Welcome back to this incredible discussion of two fantastic women sharing their very personal experiences from two very different time frames. Let's rejoin the conversation now as we transition from diagnosis to surgery and recovery. Veronica, you were actually the catalyst for this conversation because I knew you were so early on still when we talked. And I have a friend that's a cardiac nurse at the hospital system here in Sacramento. And she mentions she knows this guy, one of her good friends, has this thing called a myocardial bridge, to one of her friends on the floor. And she goes, Hey, I have a friend that has one of those things too. And so my friend, the nurse, calls and she goes, Jeff, you're not going to believe this. Somebody else has your condition. And they live in the Sacramento area. They're in Folsom, California, which is 10 minutes from my house. And I'm like, Oh, that's awesome. I said, Do you think you could ask her, knowing HIPAA, would you please ask your nurse friend if she would ask her friend if I can call her just so I can figure out what the heck is going on? And sure enough, the the person happened to be Sarah. Our first phone call, she spent, I it was over an hour. Um it was a Sunday afternoon, and she talked with me for an hour about, oh, this is this and this is this, and she's already a year out of it. I'm not in it yet. And I'm thinking, oh God, this is gonna be rough. Because I how long until I can ride again? But she had already started running by then, too. And so we we had just this wonderful conversation and have since maintained a you know a relationship. So if you would go now to your next step, you get your surgery date, you're going to Stanford. It's not like you're going to Northern California for a vacation, even though you pack the bag and you're excited, it's a little bit different. And now it's it's time, and this is just six less than seven weeks ago. What has been happening since? And maybe just walk us through post-surgery, ICU, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah. So when I packed my bags for those three weeks in in California, it wasn't quite the spa vacation that I was envisioning. You're right. But man, it was the next best thing. The care that I received was world-class. So yeah, went up there for for the week of testing, the surgery or the unroofing, followed by a modified ravage. And, you know, Jeff, I'm just still so thankful to you because, you know, we hear what the surgery is like or from what the recovery is like from astronomy, but I had no idea what to expect with modified ravage recovery. And so I couldn't prepare myself before. And when I got home and I was feeling terrible, I reached out to Jeff and sent him a message and said, Hey, you're the only one I know. When do you feel better? I think was the gist of the message. Because, man, I was struggling.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Let me just add for the people who don't know what this modified ravage procedure that Veronica is talking about. We have the sternotomy, so we're like most others who have the sternum cut down the center, and then the surgeon, in our case, it happened to be the same surgeon, Dr. Boyd, finishes up and he pins that back together as it would be closed, and then the thoracic surgeon comes in because our sternums are deeper into our chest, causing pressure on our hearts. At least in my case, I'm assuming it'll be something similar to yours, too. They don't want to do all this work on the heart and then still find out that the sternum's putting pressure on the heart. So they have to lift the sternum. And that's what the modified ravage procedure is. And it requires cutting ribs from the sternum. So not only do you have the healing process of the incision from the thoracotomy, sternotomy, now you have ribs that have to grow back to the sternum that's been adjusted in some way, shape, or form to relieve the pressure on the heart. So yeah, it's just a little more fun in the healing process. But as a functional process, it heals at the same time. It's still roughly a 12-week process. I remember talking to Dr. Boyd about it. I says, okay, Dr. Boyd, we're going to do all this. And he goes, You're going to get your buddy, you know, Dr. Barry, and he's going to come in and we're going to do all this stuff. And I said, so what's all the he goes, well, yours is going to be a little different. Yeah, it's it it's going to be a little more painful. And I'm thinking, you know, you don't really want somebody to tell you this is going to hurt more, because all you can think about is more is relative on a scale. What does more what does what does more mean? And that's you're still in that space a little bit. And if if you could share. So for those very few of the people listening are going to have this extra process, the symptoms they'll experience will still be similar. Ours were just exaggerated. So I think for them, they can hear us and go, Whew, I'm glad I don't have that. Glad it was just the cut that you weren't even going to think of. You're thinking of a little bikini cut kind of thing, right? A sweater cut? So you you go through your surgery, you get to ICU.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Yeah, so you're right. It is, it's true that there's a little more apparently pain. I've never had astronomy, so I can't compare, but apparently it's true that there's a little more pain when the modified ravage is involved. I got a little bonus time in ICU. I didn't get out of there until Saturday night from you know the Thursday morning surgery. And my my blood pressure is just normally a little bit low. So it was, you know, I was having a little bit of trouble with that, trouble keeping oxygen up and pain control. Goodness, it was just a real feat for them to be able to get on top of pain and nausea. So I had a little, little extra time in ICU, but great care while I was there. And you know, I just I don't want to scare anyone away from surgery, make anyone nervous about the pain, because I think everyone who's had this says it's painful, it's it's rough, but you can do it. And that's so true. I mean, it's it's just gonna be rough for a little bit. Um, I take great care of you, they do everything they can to help you, and it's just something you kind of have to get through and you do make it. And when I reached out to you, Jeff, about three weeks, I think post-op and said, when does this get better? You know, he said he said it will, and it does. Um, Dr. Schnecker told me in my follow-up at one week that typically with the unroofing that people start feeling better, you know, at week three to four post-op. She said, You're going to feel bad for six weeks. And I said, Okay. And that was that was kind of true. I was six weeks last Thursday, and yesterday was the first day I woke up and thought, I feel good. And today I feel like myself. And it's the first time since August of 2021 that I have felt like myself. So the pain is there, you know, it after surgery. It's tough, it's inconvenient, you know, you're limited in your range of motion and just getting along. But I had a great support system. I had friends and family come in to Palo Alto. I had lots of support at home. So that was a great help. And, you know, other than that, it's just kind of it's just kind of getting through. You know, I know that I do want to mention, I think we hear a lot of people worry about ICU and worry about waking up from surgery intubated and you know, and the dread, they dread the fear, they wake, they dread waking up intubated. And I have to say, don't be scared. You know, I was very prepared. I was somewhat like you, Sarah. I was never nervous about surgery. I was never scared, always ready, always excited. When you know that there's a possibility that you could wake up and debated, it's just kind of like the pain. You say, Okay, well, I know that it could be there, and you deal with it and woke up and debated for a couple hours, and it's you know, it's a little uncomfortable, but it's not the only thing you've got going on. And they keep you comfortable and it's just not something to worry about. They extubate you, you're feeling great.

unknown 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

And I think it's to your point about the pain. I think we want to tell people what it feels like because I didn't have anybody. I don't know anybody. I didn't have a group, I didn't have a you or a j I had nobody, and I had not known anybody who's ever had open heart surgery. So I just went in thinking, Sarah, you have a really high pain tolerance. You will get through this. And I denial again. I just shut it out and thought I'm gonna deal with it because I don't know even what to expect. I didn't have the extra. So I think that probably alleviated a lot of my pain because I didn't have that. But I like that you say, and Jeff has said, and I talked with you because you had the goods. I don't want to surprise anybody. But I would be so thankful to hear somebody say, This is the amount of pain and this is how long, because then you have something to grasp. I d I just d dealt with it and and I was really fortunate. I didn't have a lot of pain. I was I had a in the hospital I had really, really bad headaches and I had back pain. I don't know if either one of you had back pain. Yeah, we talked about the death. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Um, but when I got out, my pain went away about two weeks after two weeks. Not to say it was not it was I think it was so painful that you also forget. So when I talked to Jeff the other day, I'm like, okay, I have to figure out how much in pain was I because you forget about it. You just kind of let it, it's been a year and a half now. But I started thinking about it over the next couple of days and thought, yeah, for the first two weeks. And then I talked to my husband, how much pain was I really in? Because I will pretend like I wasn't in as much pain. So he reminded me, you could not, you know, you were in a lot of pain. But two weeks for me, but again, I don't I didn't have my bone was never sore, but I was also told that that could be possible. Like you could have the surgery and not have that extreme bone pain. And some people could have even more extreme bone pain. But yeah, it is it's painful in all sorts, and everyone's gonna have their own things. I had a really, really hard time, probably about six months after where I would have this intense, I think it was muscle spasming where you felt like you were gonna throw up. I could not focus. I could nothing. I was taking so much Advil and anything I could get my hands on. And I don't take that typically. Like I didn't grow up with medicines.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I heard we're gonna get to that in a second.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

But I ha it was I couldn't even bear it. I absolutely could not bear the pain. But it went away. It was muscle spasms, but I don't think everyone even gets those, though.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

But you know, no, because I I didn't experience those that way. I'm going to refresh your memory, Veronica, on something as we talk about pain management because it is significant. And the hospital is the first one to say we want to manage the pain because we want you to be able to do things and not do them because of the pain. So they give us a regimen of of what we can tolerate. And I know the three of us here don't want to tolerate any meds. And for anybody who tolerates an opioid or whatever the drug they give you, well, take it because it is important. There's a reason for that. Veronica was talking to me when I called her and she said, Well, I I stopped everything because I thought I just didn't want to take the drugs and I didn't want to take the the Tylenol. And two days later, after everything had cleared your system, you were in excruciating pain, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

You took notes?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

I took some Tylenol. I, you know, when they when they released me. I mean, looking back on it, Jeff, it's just ridiculous. I mean, they couldn't manage my pain in the hospital, so I'm released, and I I don't take the pain meds other than Tylenol, and then wonder why I can't walk more than you know, 10 or 15 steps. And and was I was in a lot of pain. And it it doesn't just mean while you're here under our care in the hospital, take pain meds. It means when you get out. And Sarah, I'm the same. I have a high tolerance to pain. I thought if I can handle this, I can push through it. You know, I think as athletes also, we push through so much pain and you ignore it and you just grit your teeth and you go. And I kept doing that, but I was so limited. And so what happens is, you know, my my lungs aren't healing as well as they should because my activity isn't where it should be. And I'm just in pain. And so my checkup with Dr. Boyd when I'm telling him how far I can walk, they're like, oh no, you should be walking five or 10 minutes this week and 10 to 15 minutes next week. I'm like, no, we're talking steps, not minutes for me. And so they got me back on the pain schedule. You know, no, you need to take this painkiller. And then three hours later, you need to take the ibuprofen and the tyanol. And getting back on that schedule, I was able to function, which you need to do. It's so important, you know. I think we think we're tough and we can handle pain. And, you know, we can to a certain extent, but can we enough that our bodies are really allowed to heal? Yeah, you know, if it's if I'm gritting my teeth on the couch, gritting through the pain, but I'm not moving, my lungs aren't re-inflating, then what am I really doing to help along my recovery? But that was a whole mindset that I had to realize I needed to adopt. And, you know, I did that the hard way. So then I I did have to get back on the pain meds a little while. And you know, they're they're not fun. I don't feel great on them. I feel a little woozy, a little nauseated, but you know, you need it and you will eventually come off. It's okay to be on them and it's okay to let your body heal, and you're gonna come off. It's not forever.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Do you think for the both of you you were on heavier meds because of the extra well everybody's pain is different.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So the necessity for the medication really is gonna be predicated on the intensity of the pain. So in my case, I was off the opioids in two days, but I couldn't eat enough Tylenol.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah, it was every four hours, and it I don't recall the dosage at the time. I don't I don't even want to say the dosage because I don't want to infer that that's acceptable. But what I was on, it was it was as much as they said you can tolerate and do it every four hours. Yeah. And I did that. And so initially it was a little rough, but the pain was manageable, and then it started to minimize and minimize and minimize. Oh, opioids for me just screw my entire system up. So I said, I'm gonna do everything I can to not have to take that if I don't have to. So it was just a couple of days, but I mean, literally that Taiwan all was another six weeks, eight weeks, and then as you finally get to start cutting it back, which you do, Veronica, you're correct. You do. It's exciting. Hey, you wake up and you tell your wife, hey, I only I only had to take, you know, X today. Yeah. And I can't wait until I'm only doing it twice a day, and pretty soon I won't be taking them all, won't that be great?

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

There was another thing that happens with the pain, too, that I think we forget, and I want to bring it up because I know I talked to you about it. We all experienced this crazy back pain. And I couldn't find a solution to it. And I think it was you that said, well, try a heating pad. I've never had a heating pad. I went and bought the heating pad right away. And I laid on it, and I think I shared with you, Veronica, I built this rig, this rig on the couch that had variations of the day as the day would go on, where I would sit against the rig so that I could have the heating pad in the right spot and move it around. And then I would go to bed and it would hurt like heck. And I thought, well, why do I I just need to take the heating pad to bed? You know, that'll that'll make all the difference in the world. And it did until I didn't need it any longer. So you do have to experiment around and you have to move and find places you can sit and get comfortable to where you're upright, not laying down all the time, because that's not good either.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah. And I got approval really early on. I have a really good friend who owns a practice, she's a PT. And so I it took them a couple of weeks to give me an okay, obviously for obvious reasons, but I think it was six weeks after they allowed me to go see her. It was super gentle, very like she knew how to work. It was she practices this type of PT. So that was a changer for me. Because it was yeah. Well, when I woke up in ICU, I said to the nurse, he was the best guy ever. Oh my gosh, he was amazing. He was my angel. He just I was in so much pain. I had the worst headache. And I said to him, I don't what is going on with my back and my shoulder? And he said, Do you want me to show you what they did when you were in surgery? And I said, Yeah. And he said, No, really, do you want to really see? So he showed me the way that they have to position you, and he said, This is exactly why you feel this way. So it was a good visual for me because you think, oh, it's gonna hurt here, not my whole body. So it took a long time. And actually my collarbones are still kind of a little wonky. And I have seen I keep I go back to my PT. She she helps like rearrange it a little bit. And I have a masseuse who also does it as well, but it'll never be they'll never be straight again, which is fine with me. I'm okay with that. I can run.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Small small trade-off, but that's good to hear, you know, just both those things, you know, still still sore at the collarbone and and went today for the first time. Got a guy I go to for active release treatments, and he was able to, you know, work the intercostals back inside of those ribs and just really help, you know, gently loosen things up again because you know, even six weeks out, ribs are still out of whack, but that made a huge difference.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah. So do I don't know if I ever asked this of you, Jeff. When you breathe, so because you I mean, I'm assuming that is even more painful because you actually had ribs that were cut. So I feel like for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Oh, yeah. Yeah, breathing they give you the little spirometer and they tell you you're you're getting out and now do this thing, you know, three, four times a day. And I'm gonna be religious about it because I want to be able to breathe. It hurts like hell to take a deep breath, especially if you're trying to minimize the pain meds, and then you have to blow it out hard into the spirometer, and that hurts like hell.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

And you get used to it, but again, that's very critical. It really is again for anybody who has has recovering from the surgery, the spirometer is important because it gives your lungs the volume and you need that. And I I kept I kept thinking to myself, I said, well, if all that's been cut and moved around and opened up, maybe I can get more air in there now because it's a little loose. So I'm gonna take these big, big deep breaths and push really, really hard and push it all out. And I don't know if it made any difference, but you know, it was a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

I was thinking, I'm gonna get more I'm gonna this is gonna help my running. That's all I get thinking to. I wasn't saying the same ears, Sarah. I actually, the person who came to my house, you know how the nurse comes to your house for two weeks after? Did you have this? No. Oh, you didn't?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Oh did you? Did you Veronica? I had no nurse come to my house.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Oh, I had so it was supposed to be four weeks that they would come and check up on me once a week and check to make sure I'm doing my thing. I also was religious. I did it when I was supposed to do. I did my walks four times a day. Got as they told me I could go to here. I went to there and pushed it a teensy bit enough to not be bad. But the nurse who came to the house said, This is this was very shocking. I just thought, you just got open heart surgery. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. And so I was talking to him, he was young, and he said, I just went and visited somebody else who had the same, not myocardio, something else, open heart surgery. And I got to their house and they were drinking soda and playing video games and had not touched anything. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Nothing. And I thought, you know how precious our life is? How do you not do simple things because it's painful and it's scary when you know, oh, it's time to do the thing. Darn it, I don't want to do the thing. But he said, you know what? The nurse said, We basically said to this person, we're not coming to you because we want to come to people like you. You know how important it is. You're doing the things that you're supposed to be doing. And when you do that, you are gonna come out of it a lot better. And even though I don't know necessarily what they said to you, Veronica, but my surgeon was very honest. He said, We're we're gonna fix you, but you won't be able to do the same things as you did prior. That's hard. And I know you and I have talked about that. And you have to change that mindset of your level is here and you're still gonna be able to go back and do it. It just may not look the same. I struggled with that on my first training for my marathon. I mean, I it was so hard to mentally have to not do what you do before until I did the marathon and I thought, I got to do this again. Who cares what the time is?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

I get to do it.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

I get to wake up every single morning and I get to run and do the things that I love. And I'm not tired like I used to be. I'm not, it was that was huge for me to just have to step back and say, okay, this is my new me. And that's okay. And I know because you're an athlete, it's I don't know what yours said to you, but it was good that my surgeon said to me, we're gonna make it a lot better. Just know that it may not be the same as when you were at your height.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

You know, Dr. Boyne said, Send me a picture of your next triathon. He said that I would be able to get back to it. But he didn't really set any expectations for me. He didn't say, you know, you're going to be able to do it, but watch out for this, or know that you'll be at, you know, half your performance level or 75%. So I don't know that yet. I mean, I guess I'll see when I'm able to, but for you, what was your return like back to training? How did you approach it? When did you start and how did you increase? And so how did you know what to do?

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yeah, I got I got to start running at 12 weeks. And my friend who's a PT is also a runner. And so she specializes in recovery. So it was I giggled for two reasons. I giggled when I saw it because I thought, oh my gosh, this is really. And then I giggled because I went, I don't even know if I could do it. It was like it was, I think I did like a one-minute, three minute walk, and then I could do 20 seconds run, three minutes, 26. And then it just built on itself. So it was a 12-week program. So it took me 12 weeks to get back to running three straight miles. And I had to keep my heart rate under a certain. So I would have to slow down to keep it under. But so 12 weeks was then I started marathon training at that point. But again, marathon training at a three miles was my long run on a Saturday. Yeah. Other than like normally we would jump out and do 10 or something to be our base. A little different. Uh-huh. And that three miles was not pretty. And I was not a nice person. And thankfully, my best friend who runs with me bared with me because it was really humbling to me. I thought, oh, this is why people maybe don't like running. It's really hard. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

And now you're, you know, were the new limitations self-imposed, or was it because of the surgery? Did you did you say, okay, I need to keep it at this pace or HR under this level?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

So that was doctor first. So the first 12 weeks he said I can't have it go over a certain amount. And then once that was, I went back and they said, okay, you're good to do whatever you want to do. But then the fear set in for me. That's when I started having a lot of fear. And I think that probably still holds me back a little of pushing. I'm not, I just don't push like I have pushed before because it's scary. And I think if I could just stay here, I'm fine. I just want to run. And then we were talking earlier that I did a 50 miler this past week. And that was I'm out there like smiling the entire time because I think I get to do this still. I'm not going to push it because I'm not going to ruin this and the ability. Because they actually said to me initially, you are, you can't do anything over 26 miles. And I said, okay. So then my friend asked me if I wanted to do the AR-50. And I said, well, let me ask my doctor and let me ask my surgeon. And so I did. And I was very honest with them. I said, here's what I want. This is what I've been doing. Am I okay to do it? And they said, as long as you smile and you breathe, we will let you do it. But you're never going over 50. I'm like, okay, I won't do it anymore. So I think now I go into those events with a very different mindset of I'm just so happy that I get to be here that I'm not willing to push it and test the limits anymore, which I used to. And you have to set your ego aside and let people pass you that you know you could in your mind. Could have been there. Could have been, you know, my time wasn't exactly what I wanted. But it's because I didn't push myself and I'm okay with that now. Prior, had I not pushed myself hard enough, I would have been upset at myself. So it's an it's fun. It makes it a little bit more fun to just go out with no expectations.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Just finish.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

You just get to finish.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

And and just enjoy it and taking the pressure off of yourself.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

That's great. And actually experience around you. I would never stop at an aid station ever. Never stopped at aid stations. I wouldn't have my phone out. I wouldn't look at people. I was just going forward. That's it. Now I'm like, oh my gosh, I saw a bald eagle. I really did on my run. Saw a bald eagle. I stopped. I took a picture of it. It was just a different lens of what I used to see. So I I'm really, really, really happy about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

As her therapist, I will tell you, she's come a long way.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

I have. So happy. I had some angry moments in my house. I will be honest, I screamed because I thought this is what life is. This is what it's going to be right after, four weeks after, maybe, where you still can't lift five pounds, I think. At that point, you can. I I had a couple moments. My husband had to calm me down and remind me that I just had surgery. But I'm like, but I can do it. And he said, but you can't right now.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

You have to wait.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

So And I think one of the things you'll find as well, Veronica, you're six and a half weeks, that's all even at twelve, that's where I was cleared to get on the bike on a trainer in the garage or wherever you have your trainer. And they said, It's it's okay. You could ride, but it was if it fell. You know, then then you're gonna make a mess of all the work we just did. And I said, Oh, okay, well that makes sense because I think I can ride. And I'm like, it's not about the ride, it's not about the heart, it's about the damage you could do if you fell on the bike. I'm a year almost to the day last year at this time when I first got on the trainer in the garage, and they said, Give us another month before you actually go out on the bike. And getting on the trainer, I was so excited. I actually had my wife video it and you know, I I you know thanked everybody for the ability for me to even be able to get back on it. And I have my kit on for people who don't cycle, it's the the the men and nylon stuff that we wear. And I cried when I started pedaling, you know, and I cried when I got off of it, thinking, I get to do this again, I get to do this again, and I know I can get off the trainer at some point, and everything worked. And I had no symptoms. The only thing that was really unusual is the discomfort came from the pressure on the healing bone, you know, all the sternum area that has, you know, had all the work. And part of my modified ravage included a bar that stayed in there for a year. So I would feel that discomfort of you know, you're holding the bars and you're close and you've got your body weight on it. So that that was there. And that first ride, you know, four weeks later on the street, talk about scared.

unknown 32:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

I mean, I'm I'm going out on the bike and I'm clipping into pedals. And it's like, well, I can't get my leg down. What if I can't? What if I fall? And all of it worked out just fine. But that healing process of all of it, it does take time. And it just because the 12 weeks is where you can pick things up, it doesn't mean it's okay. You it it's not all done. It really takes at least a year for all of that to heal properly and do everything that it's supposed to do. And I was fortunate enough I got back in the gym as well. I got back in the gym in June. So I waited six months and started with extremely, extremely light weights. Again, talk about Humbling. Where you know what you used to do, and here you are with these baby weights that it's like really that's that's what it's gonna get. And it does it does improve. And I know we might be talking over a lot of people who don't exercise the way we do, but it's scalable. It's the same. It's it for somebody who is more sedentary, it's just get up and walk around the block. You know, that is that is a big deal for some people. And all of our doctors will tell us, have told us, and probably tell every other patient, that your well-being is all of your body and mind to a greater degree. I we don't want to get into that, so that's a whole nother episode of of you know mental health with this process. But you you feel better by doing something, and you're not gonna heal well if you don't. And you know, you're at six and a half weeks and you look and sound remarkable. I'm I don't know that I looked and felt like that at six and a half weeks.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Aaron Ross Powell You actually said something so important though, Jeff, is the mental. I think that's a huge part. And like you said, maybe it is a whole nother episode of the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

It's gonna be another episode, yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

They also prepped me for that because I think we think with our type of brains, we're it's not gonna affect us. Right. And it does. And I think we're all really strong mentally. I mean, we do things, everyone is mentally strong, but I started meditating because I thought I'm not gonna get hit with the depression. I don't want to, and I did research on it because, especially with the heart, there is a huge connection.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

It's very common, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

And that I was more scared of that than I was of the pain, I think. So I started meditating, started journaling even prior to because I wanted to make sure that that was not a part that I fell deep into. Because you could, like with you, you were in pain, you weren't moving, that is sitting, and then you start going down this dark, dark place, and it's hard to come back from that. So it's super important for people to make sure that they are aware when they start feeling that way. And another thing is my doctor said a lot of times when people start getting that depression, like feeling that hopeless and felt lost, it's actually a physical issue, usually, that we don't know. So they said, if you start feeling helpless or really depressed, you need to come back in because that could be potentially something going wrong with your surgery. So I thought, interesting. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have thought of that. I would have just thought, I'm not moving, I don't get to do what I normally do, I have a strong personality, but it is really important that if you start feeling that hopeless feeling that what is this life worth and you know, what is happening to check in with your doctor quickly. I wouldn't have known that.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Like you, Sarah, I had read about this impact. I began going to yoga, you know, five to seven days a week, I guess at the beginning in January 2022, because I just couldn't work out, I couldn't do anything. And but the only yoga that I could do was just more the yin yoga. So really it's like an hour-long stretching class. Yeah, you know, I couldn't hold any body weight, it's none of the typical warrior poses or anything. So it was it's just yin yoga and hour-long stretching, but beginning has meditation and end has meditation. And that really helped mentally prepare me as well, Sarah. I think what you were saying makes sense. You know, you need to kind of prepare yourself for it. And then reading about some of the mental and emotional aspects that you can encounter after surgery. I wanted to be prepared for that too. But you know, where I found that it helped me was in leading up to surgery, some of the frustration that I had, you know, especially coming from such an active lifestyle. Just sitting on the couch. You know, I spent as much time sitting on the couch pre-surgery as I did post-surgery. Just because my activities were so limited. And just it it really helped me get through that. Um it helped me in the testing, you know, it helped me get through testing. It helped me when you wake up intubated. You're just totally chill because you can you've learned to relax and and you've learned how to work through things and and be patient. So um, but as far as any other pre or post counseling or discussions about, hey, this could pop up. No, I didn't really have any. So I'll I'll be looking forward to your podcast that focuses on that. I think that's what's such an important aspect people need to think about.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

People do experience it and they may think it's just them. It's not just them, it's many. When so many things in your life change and you realize your mortality, yeah, that's a big deal. And you have a constant reminder because something hurts. You know, you're you're there with that frustration or pain for quite some time that it wears on you after a while. You know, meds aside, then you go out to do what you thought you used to be able to do and you can't do any of it, you know, strike two, and then you go and you get to a little bit better and you go to do where you think you could do that because that's what you used to do before. I can't do that. And it just piles on. I think the awareness and recognition of the gift we've been given to get up every day again as a result of the surgery, because I think all of us, and many people, including the Facebook group, anybody I talk to that's got this symptom, we all have this concern when we don't know you could die. And you just don't know if this thing's gonna kill you, and if it is, when. Now we never get to know the our termination point, but at least now we know we've been given this gift for a reason, and you know, what do we do with it, and how do we do things differently, and still enjoy the stuff that we did before because that helps us be stronger. So you you did your run. I I have to share this because I want to share it, because I want to give Veronica some encouragement here. I did my first organized ride on Saturday as well, and it was 65 miles in the Sierras, and it was was spectacular. The whole time I'm thinking, okay, this is not a it's not a race, it's not competitive, just watch your heart rate. Dr. Boyd, I paid attention. You just don't overdo it. And I had been training for it, so I felt really, really good. And it was everything I could do to intentionally moderate and not be stupid, even though I felt I could be stupid. Everything felt good. But what a gift that is. A year ago and pre-surgery, no way.

unknown 40:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

So you just back to the that recovery, oh, I I want to say process, but as you you get to the point where you do you still recognize your pain, Verona, because you're st you're still in it. I'm a little further out, and you're a lot further out. The funny thing is you forget it. You forget the intensity and the duration and the frustration of the pain. And we get to the end, and I pulled over and I just sat on the back of the car and cried. I couldn't have done this before. You know, I'm I'm so fortunate and so blessed that I get to do it. You know, in the grand scheme, by all of us being here, we're, you know, we're benefiting somebody else who gets to see that this is a condition that is treatable and it does improve. And not necessarily the same for everybody, but it does.

unknown 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Well, congratulations on that great ride. What a milestone. I can imagine how that must have felt when you finished just to be doing it. I just so happy for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

You you will get there. And certainly we're here to answer your questions as you start down that path in about six weeks.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Oh, thank you. I wish we lived closer. I could run it. I do too. I could too. I could send you my running my running plan that got back because you're great. Okay. I'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Well, I really thank you guys for saying yes. It is kind of a unique situation, and uh the expectation I've got is for the people who do listen. You don't have to be an athlete, you don't have to be super competitive, super fit. All the things that we said apply to everybody who's gone through the surgery. It's just scaled differently for each individual. And choosing to do nothing is choosing to do nothing. And you will not recover well and you will probably have continuous conditions if you don't do what the doctors have given you the gift to do. And it's I just think that's significant. I remember when I asked Dr. Boyd, how many people didn't make it off the table after the surgery? And he looks at me and goes, None. Everybody made it off the table. He goes, Not everybody made it long term, but some of that was by choice and some of it was by complications, other conditions. And he said, I don't have any expectation for anybody that does what they're supposed to do, that they shouldn't be able to live a healthy life as a result. So I hope we're providing some of that incentive for the other people too. And you have been amazing. And Veronica, especially telling your story so early in the recovery process. So a year from now, or after you've done that next try, or you start your running, you know, it'll be fun to hear how it's going. Because I'm sure some of the people we speak with over the course of time, somebody's gonna say, Well, what about that person?

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Glad to share my journey for anyone who has questions further down the road. And I appreciate both of you sharing your journeys with me. It's it's helped me tremendously, and I just appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Aaron Powell The Myocardial Bridge Facebook group is full of great responses for anybody who is listening to the podcast today that hasn't gone there, go there because there's a lot of information there, and there's a lot of people sharing back and forth. Somebody will be similar to you. The fact that I found Veronica on there with this additional pectus excavatum thing is just beyond comprehension. And to find out we had both the same surgeons at the same hospital. And you're In Texas, we're here in California, and you think you're alone.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

And you're not.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

I was priding myself on being alone. I was thinking I'd be only one.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

You only had that trophy for you. You're like the Strava legend.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I thought it was one of one, and then you showed up. And I think it in my own the same doctors. Gosh, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

And then I figured, okay, well, there's only one guy 66 years old.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

You had the bar. Yours was much more severe, so I'll let you have that. One was not nearly as well.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

From what I hear, I wouldn't want the bar. That was no.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Well, again, thank you guys. This was just amazing. I I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was anxious about putting everybody together, thinking, well, what if there's a bad vibe and they don't like each other? But uh who knows?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

I mean, my new best friends. We're sure and running us. Yeah, I know. There are our trainings. We are.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Well, thank you. And I'm so glad that you felt well today.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

And yes, well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Keeping in mind it's not linear. You will have peaks and valleys, but it stays on a continuum upward until you know you get back. So Veronica, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

It was nice meeting you, Jeff. And thank you, Sarah. It was a nice connection. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Thank you for listening to Imperfect Heart. It's my hope that this information help in some way to improve your situation or will help you better understand this condition. More importantly, that it gives you hope through stories that there is help and you most certainly are not alone. If you've been diagnosed with a myocardial bridge, please be sure to join the private Facebook group, Myocardial Bridge Support Group. For more information about our program or to reach me directly, visit the website, myimperfectheart.com. If you like what you heard today, please give a positive review, thumbs up, high five, whatever your app likes. And be sure to share with everyone important to you so they understand what it is you're dealing with. Please subscribe as well. Welcome each day with gratitude and positivity. Imperfect Heart is a production of Hear Me Now Studio.