Episode 43: David Vollmer’s Journey Into the Holisitic and Alterntative Therapies. Part 1 of a 3 part series.

SPEAKER_00 0:00

People are having heart attacks from this, people are dying from this, people are having all kinds of other problems. And then I also then reflected back and said, wait a second, when I was four years old playing T ball, my chest hurt when I ran around the bases. And my chest, I always had chest pain, always. And I just thought it was normal. I thought everyone had chest pain. You know, but after hearing, you know, all the stories and everyone talking and your story, like this is what I've had my whole life.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Welcome to Imperfect Heart, a place for you to join me, Jeff Holden, in conversations, discussions, and dialogue about our hearts and the impact myocardial bridges have on them. We'll talk with healthcare professionals, those in related fields that support our condition, and others just like us with stories of their myocardial bridge experiences. It's my intention for this content to inform, educate, entertain, and even motivate or inspire you in your personal journey on dealing with a myocardial bridge. Most importantly, is to have you leave each episode with hope, knowing you're not alone and that what you're experiencing is real. My guest this episode has been somebody I've been talking with for nearly a year now. We've developed a very appreciative relationship, and what you're about to hear not only in his story, but in the subsequent two stories, comes as a result of his intent to be sure our stories are getting told and that doctors and the medical community are listening. This is the first of a three-part series that will have you hear David Vomer first share his journey and outcome post-robotic surgery. You're then going to hear from Dr. Jeffrey Fowler, the interventional cardiologist that did the provocative testing for David's myocardial bridge. This will be the first time we've ever had an interventional cardiologist walk us through the provocative testing process. Then, third in the series is going to be Dr. Johans O. Bonatti, one of the top robotic cardiac surgeons in the country. He's going to walk us through the process of operating on David's heart in detail. So, you see, David's been instrumental in documenting his journey all the way through to completion, and he's even been able to get his surgical team to agree to the podcast once he was repaired. He's a father of three wonderful young men. He's been married for 21 years to a most supportive wife, has a master's degree in biology, which you'll certainly appreciate when you hear his personal approach to well-being. He served as a crew chief on a Cobra helicopter in the military, and he has successfully built and sold a fitness product company that has enabled him to now semi-retire into a consultant on systems and process for businesses looking to grow from six to seven figures. David Vollmer, welcome to Imperfect Heart.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, it's great to be here, Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

You know, it seems like I've known you for years, but it's only been a little over nine months since we first connected. And that came as a result of you wanting to talk about your story and say, hey, I think this journey is going to be important, and I want to get in front of it. I said, of course. I mean nobody gets this far in front of it, but now that I've gotten to know you, I certainly understand how this all came to be. So you're a pro-supplement guy, you're really focused on organics and holistic measures for health, plant-based solutions versus pharma. You know, let's start with where you first noticed something wasn't right and what you started to do about it.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Okay. Yes. So the big the big impact date was December 11th of 2023. I got AFib while I was working out with a friend and I was on a stair stepper. I was like, man, I just I just didn't feel good. I felt off. I I just something was wrong. And I didn't have an Apple Watch or anything at that time. So he's like, here, put my Apple watch on. Let's see what your heart rate is. And it was 140 something, and it was said I was in AFib. So I was like, oh God, you know, I was scared, you know, because my gym's in my garage. So I come up, got my wife, took me to the hospital, went in the emergency room. By the time I got in on the bed, I was out of AFib. And they were like, Oh, there's nothing wrong with you. So it was, I was like, okay, maybe this is a one-off thing, you know. But I started, you know, they they explained to me what AFib was. Um, and then I started, you know, just doing some research. They said I should follow up with a cardiologist. And so I did that the next week and went in and saw him, you know, from that time to the next week, no episodes of AFib. And you know, you know, I work out almost every day, you know, either doing some cardio or or heavy lifting. So this was very abnormal for me to see this in me, you know, because I like we eat well, we do all those things. So on December 14th, I had that meeting with that cardiologist, and he said, Hey, let's just get you some testing. And, you know, with my background, you know, I love testing. Test, test, test, and then you figure out well, you know, what you need instead of just winging it. So I was all for the test. So he ordered me a stress test and an echocardiogram, and that was going to be on January 18th, so more than a month out. So I was a little upset about that, but I guess that's just how it goes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Did you have any other occurrences of AFib in that period of time?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah. So on December 26th, the day after Christmas, I had AFib, went to the hospital. They they checked my heart rate and they said it was at 126, but then they told me it was gonna be 13 hours before I got to the got a bed. So they just said you'll be fine, just go home. So I went home. And then I had one more episode on December 28th and went back to the cardiologist because it they said, come on in the office. So they put me on the on the bed, they put the EKG on me. And literally, as I was getting the EKG put on me, they could see I was in AFib, and then I went right out of AFib immediate that we went out of AFib. So the cardiologist there said to me, Here, take these three medications and schedule yourself an ablation. And I was like, What? You know, it was it was mind-blowing to me. Like, this is this like the third time that I've had AFib. They've all been short episodes, but why would we want to, you know, schedule an ablation surgery? I mean, that's a pretty big deal, right? Um, when I only had symptoms for not even a month. So her and I got into an argument and and I accused her of the pharmaceuticals, you know, dictating how to do things instead of her being a doctor and looking in the root cause. Because I had seven blood tests I wanted to get done. Because in this interim, I read the book on how to cure AFib. So got that book and it said, you know, check your magnesium levels, your potassium levels, both whole blood and intercellular. Check your selenium, you know, a bunch of different things. And I said, Hey, I want these seven tests. Can you write me an order so we can test these things? And she she wouldn't do it. So that was really frustrating for me, you know, dealing with them on that aspect because my insurance was going to pay for it. All I needed was the doctor to do it. And if she didn't do it, which she didn't do it, I ended up doing it myself through like direct labs, just ordered the blood test myself and did the blood testing. So when I left the office, I literally called and complained to her senior management and demanded that I could see an electrophysiologist because I wanted someone that could work with me. I even spoke to the staff and said, listen, I don't want to take medications if I don't have to. I want to find the root cause and I want to really understand what this whole thing is. And they said, okay, yeah, this this guy, you know, he seems to fit with you, you know, we'll schedule you. But that was February 5th.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

And we also know that for the most part, AFib is a condition that's an electrical issue in the heart, in the heart rhythm.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Right, right. So I went and then on January 10th, did some a lot of work that day, worked like 16 hours, and I got dehydrated. So on January 11th, I went into AFib again. And then my wife posted on a functional medicine website for her thyroid and said, Hey, this is my husband's symptoms. This is some of the blood work that we had. What do you guys think? And one of the doctors said, Hey, I think he's low in probably potassium and magnesium. Just tell him to, you know, up his dosage and see what happens. And that was at four o'clock. She told me the answer. And I so I went and took 2,000 milligrams of potassium and some magnesium. And 25 minutes later, I was out of AFib. And that's what it was. I got my blood work back two days later that I took the week before, and it showed that I was deficient in potassium intracellularly and in whole blood, and I was low in magnesium. So, and I did a hair test to confirm. And so since that day, I I've really watched my electrolytes, and that you know brought us, you know, I didn't have any more episodes of AFib until recently, but that's a new part of the story. But so I had uh the stress test done and the echocardiogram, and they both showed ischemia in my heart.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So I I I maxed out the stress test, you know, I got to 173 beats per minute. I was breathing pretty heavy. And, you know, at this point, I didn't know anything about you or bridges or anything to that nature. So I was just thinking, okay, I have ischemia. And then that was January 18th. And then on the echocardiogram, they said, You have Wilkinson Parks White Syndrome. And like they literally called me. I read, I was reading the report, and a nurse called me and said, Oh my God, you got to get in here. You're gonna die. And I'm like, why? She goes, Well, you have this WPW. And I looked at I I was already looking into it, what it was, and that's when your heart races over 230 beats per minute, and it has other things, which I was exhibiting no symptoms, never had any symptoms of any of this. And here the radiologist read it wrong, as I come to find out after I met with the electrophysiologist February 5th.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Nonetheless, that's a little frightening because now all of a sudden you're told something almost contrary to what you assumed or believed, especially since you were getting better.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Right, right. So, you know, but then I saw the ischemia and I'm like, well, what's this? You know, so I didn't understand that, so I started reading up on it. And then on February 5th, I went in and saw the the EP, and he's like, and I and I brought all my notes with me. I brought all my blood work with me. And I had on top of my binder the book, How to Cure AFib. And he walks in and he looks at me and he looks down and he's like, How to cure AFib, huh? And I said, Yes, sir. And he's like, What quacks wrote that book? And I was like, It's two of your colleagues. I said, one runs the cardiology division at a hospital in Utah, and the other one's the head of the cardiology department at the University of Utah. And then he was like, Well, what did they say? And I said, Well, they said to check intracellular potassium, magnesium, and sodium. And he was like, Oh, yeah, we we don't do that. And I was like, You don't? Why wouldn't you do that? Well, that's not standard of care. Standard of care is to check whole blood only, not intracellular. And he says, Well, how are you feeling? And I said, Good. I said, I fixed my potassium levels. Here's what was my results. I showed him everything. And I said, But in this one echocardiogram, it says I have WPW. And he was like, No, no, no, they read it wrong. You know, it was, you know, he goes, You're perfectly fine. He goes, but you have ischemia. He goes, you have a clogged artery. I don't think so. You know, because of the way I eat, I take high dosages of K2 and been doing that for 10 years to preclude any calcium buildup in my arteries. He's like, no, no, I'm gonna bet you you have a big blockage and that's what's happening. I said, okay. I said, how do we fix that? Or how do we see what that is? And he says, Well, we'll get you a calcium score. I said, Okay, I don't know what that is, but sounds like a plan. So as I left the office, I called my PCP and we're we're friends. And I said, Hey, I said he wants to give me a calcium score. And he said, nah, nah, nah. He goes, You want to get a CTA because the calcium score is only going to give you a number. He's like, we need to see what's going on in there, whether you have hard plaque, soft plaque, you know, how much of a blockage. At least we can see something. And I said, All right, well, he won't write the order for that. He only wrote it for the calcium score. He said, Well, call the other hospital. So I booked it myself. And then that went, I believe that was April 4th, went and did that CTA. And took about 15 minutes, wasn't, you know, I had no idea what to expect.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

For the benefit of somebody who's new to the program, a couple of acronyms you use. PCP is your primary care physician, but the CTA that you're referring to is a CT angiogram, which coincidentally, early on for you, most people don't get their angiogram, their CT angiogram until deeper into the process. You're fortunate that they started there. It's the gold standard for identifying a bridge.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah. And that's what I found out after this.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

And so I was walking out of the hospital and they literally got the results right away. So my primary care physician called me and he's like, You lucky bastard. And I was like, What? He goes, You have a calcium score of zero. I said, Well, what does that mean? He says, You don't have any plaque. Like you have zero plaque. And I said, Well, what does the the CTA say? He goes, Well, you have no signs of atherosclerosis, you have no blockages, but you have a myocardial bridge. And I said, Well, what's that? He goes, I don't know. I looked in the literature real quick. They look like they're benign. So I don't I don't really don't know. I said, Okay. So I had a 40-minute drive home. So I'm telling my wife this, like, hey, they found this myocardial bridge. Start looking up, you know, and she's like, You just look it up when you get home. So soon as I got home, I've been using, you know, listening to podcasts for a while on health and fitness and stuff. And I just typed in myocardial bridge in my Apple podcast. And there you guys were.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

It is bigger than everybody thinks, but not everybody knows.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Right. It was completely by accident. You know, like this is how it happened. So I listened to every single one of your episodes that you had on there during the next week. And I was like, oh my God, like this is this is bigger than anything. And I even called my PCP. I was like, yo, dude, like people are having heart attacks from this, people are dying from this. People are having all kinds of other problems. And then I also then reflected back and said, wait a sec, when I was four years old playing T-ball, my chest hurt when I ran around the bases. And my chest, I always had chest pain, always. And I just thought it was normal. I thought everyone had chest pain. You know, but after hearing, you know, all the stories and everyone talking and your story, like this is what I've had my whole life. And I never knew it. And then also reflecting back when I was in the military, you know, I maxed out the PT on sit-ups and push-ups. But when it came to the run, after I ran a mile, I would just die, you know, completely. I couldn't catch my breath. And they would always bust my balls and, you know, tell me that I'm not in shape enough, you know, and I would run every day, twice a day, trying to help. And I could never get that long-term endurance. And as we go further into this, we we find out why. But you know, the the knowledge that I got from my imperfect heart sent me down the path, like, okay, I gotta get this looked at. I got to do an invasive cath to see if this is really the issue. But then after hearing, is it Dr. Is it Kofitus?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Kofitus.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Kofitis, yeah, from Greece. So I I actually reached out to him right away. He did a consult consult with me, told me, you know, that he does minimal invasive and that, you know, make sure if I don't go with him, if I go with someone else, make sure they stop the heart, because unless they have a stabilizing arm, they can't operate on a beating heart. And he's like, You want to look at minimal invasive. So I thought that was really great. You know, it was I was very grateful to him for the fact that, you know, he wanted the business, but even if I didn't do the business with him, he was giving me the right direction on how to look into this. So then I went on your site and pulled up all the doctors. And I literally I called Stanford, I called the Mail Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, every but every person on there I reached out to. And I was like, okay, I gotta figure out who I want to go see, what the benefits and disadvantages are of each. And then I narrowed it down to three. In Greece, Dr. Guy, because I heard him on your on your event, he was an army guy, so I like that. And then Dr. Benotti, which I didn't hear anything of, but he was listed on there that he was over in Pittsburgh, and that was about five hours from me.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

And he was one of the doctors that I had slated to talk with, because there's only a handful of guys doing robotic surgery in the country in any volume. And Dr. Bonatti was the only one I hadn't spoken to yet, so he was high on my list. I want to step back just for a second because you're very research-oriented. And to your credit, you dug deep into a variety of different things, you tried a variety of different supplements as you're going through this whole process. You actually have a hyperbaric chamber in your basement, which is very unusual, as well as a red light booth.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Correct. Yeah. On on January 31st, my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so on on December 11th, though, we made the decision after I got the aphib, like we got to start investing more into our health. So we got I found a red light bed on Facebook Marketplace, found uh PEMF mat. You know, so we we got some of these things, and that's actually how my wife found her tumor, was laying in the light bed. But then after she was diagnosed, then we went the step further and got the hyperbaric and a couple other machines just to help her with that situation. And she's doing great now, just to good.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Thank you. I was gonna ask. So you're you're doing all this, yet the symptoms still present. So you're you're recognizing maybe this is something more than I can control, maybe there is a mechanical issue. Now you're going down the path of exploring doctors to to rectify the the condition that you know you've got.

unknown 19:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

And and you talk to Dr. Guy, to Dr. Cafitas, and eventually to Dr. Bonatti. What was it that brought you to Bonatti as you go through the process?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

The reason why is because it was in Pittsburgh, it was in Pennsylvania, and I'm in Pennsylvania. I really wanted to go to Greece. That was my number one choice for a long time through this process or for a month through this process. But my wife came to me and said, Listen, if we go to Greece and you die, how am I gonna get you home? So that was a legitimate, you know, concern. And, you know, like all my kids and stuff, like how are they gonna deal with this if I'm out of the country? You know, and then she didn't have any support structure if we went out of the country, where if in Pittsburgh, you know, I have family within an hour of Pittsburgh and stuff like that. And then I also liked Dr. Binotti and I blended better. You know, Dr. Guy and I, we hit we hit it off well. Dr. Henry and I, we weren't on the same page, and it's not he he wasn't bad or anything. It's just I found if you find people that are in alignment with you and some they just fit and you just know it right away. And I'll give you an example with Dr. Henry explained my situation, and I don't know if he downplayed it a little bit for me to say, hey, we got to do an invasive cath, you know, and then we'll see what goes on. And you know, it's probably not symptomatic. You know, he goes, That's what we normally see, most aren't symptomatic. And I was like, okay. Where Dr. Fowler, he he presented a different aspect. He asked me what I wanted, what I wanted to see done. So I said, Well, I want to use the Stanford protocol. And he's like, Okay, I'm not really familiar. Then I pulled up your website during our Zoom call and he dove into it. He's like, Oh, wow, these really make sense. And it just we just clicked a little better. And you know, everybody clicks with everybody a little bit differently, and that's the reason. And then Dr. Binatti. The the way he explained the surgery to me, you know, he's done over you know 4,900 robotic surgeries and he taught Dr. Guy. So, you know, I was like, oh wow. And it's closer.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Because, you know, looking into just the travel into Georgia to have it done, you know, we would add a go down three or four times, spend a lot of hotels, you know, no, no family in the area. So a lot of these things tied into why we picked Pittsburgh, you know, because it came down to my wife and I, you know, discussing it.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, and you mentioned a couple of different names. Let me go back just for the benefit of the listener. Dr. Henry is the interventional cardiologist for Dr. Guy. He does the provocative test, the invasive catheterization that you mentioned, which is the provocative test to identify the depth and the symptoms and the specifics of the bridge and how it's functioning and what it's causing in the sequence of its process of blood flow. And then Dr. Fowler is the interventional cardiologist for Dr. Benatti. Correct. So these they both work in tandem. And just as sequentially explaining that, Dr. Tremel at Stanford is the same to Dr. Boyd. So she provides all the provocative catheterization and testing for Dr. Boyd in terms of their protocol. And then the Stanford protocol is one now that is being accepted as the best practice to identify all the elements that the surgeon needs to understand and to really identify the significance of the bridge. Because there's a certain threshold that they're going to say, you know what, we we might be able to treat this medically. We don't really want to cut you and go into such an invasive situation. Even robotically, it's still heart surgery. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the body isn't getting opened up as much, but you're still operating on the heart. So we don't want to dismiss the significance of this procedure in in any way, shape, or form. Okay. So now we're we're caught up.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

You've So I just wanted to add in too that I did talk to Stanford, I did talk to the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland clinic, and they all wanted to treat me with drugs first. And I'm, you know, personally, I'm anti-drug if it's a mechanical problem. So that's why it was really important to me to get this invasive cath to see if it was symptomatic because it was a structural thing. Because I don't want to take any pharmaceuticals if I don't need to, where it's a mechanical problem. You know, like so, and that that's why, and since they were close, you know, we decided to go forth with the with the invasive cath. And that I had that happened to be on June 25th of this year.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

And we know from the discussions that you had with them, it really was a comfort level. And they were receptive to what you're asking, which I will say, based on what I know about you, you're very, very thorough. You're very deep in your investigative process. You understand a lot of what's going on. And you're probably talking in some cases in medical terms that are at their level, as you know, way above the lay person, certainly even my level understanding it, yes, but conversant? Not at all. So you're a bit of a different animal coming in there because you're asking questions to it to a different degree. And I think that's that's important as well. Because some doctors will dismiss that. They don't necessarily not comfortable with it. These guys, both Dr. Bonatti and Dr. Fowler were really receptive to what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, and Dr. Benotti's team made it super easy, and and UPMC made it super easy for me to be able to, you know, get the blood there, to have it organized, to have it ready, where a lot of the other hospitals said that we we just don't have that policy. We can't, we can't accommodate you for that particular thing because we don't have a system in place to do that. So that that was a that was another win in in our our check boxes. They were going to do it in Greece and they could do it in Georgia too, but it was a little more in depth of how we had to do things, and we would have to go to Greece a month early, donate, and because they couldn't ship it over. So we would have to do everything there, and it was just much more complicated and convoluted, you know. So we're we're really shortening the the amount of energy that I put into this. Like if this was my focus every day in researching and understanding, because I really didn't want to get cut either. You know, I was really nervous and afraid, and I even sent you a message one time like, hey, I know is this really the right thing. But you know, going into that heart catheterization, I was pretty nervous too. You know, I read a lot of horror stories and different things. But when I got there, you know, Dr. Fowler came into the room. You know, he talked to me for about 20 minutes prior to the surgery, and we we talked about the program, what we were gonna do, what he was looking to find, and what would be positive, what would be negative, you know, all these things. And as I go into the operating room, they slide me on the table, and then he's like, Oh, Dave, we're changing it up. We're we're doing acetylcholine now first instead of last. And I'm like, why would you do that? You know, like this was the protocol. He's like, Oh, I just talked to Dr. Shaw and he advised me that this is better to do it this way.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

And I was like, wow, this is really cool. And I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you for a second there, too, for the benefit of somebody who hasn't listened to some depth of the episodes. Dr. Samit Shaw is at Yale University, incredible cardiologist, and he's doing a clinical trial on Inoka, which myocardial bridges fall into. And that's that's presentation of ischemia without any apparent blockages. Just a wonderful doctor, extremely receptive, and he's also trying to establish the Stanford Protocol as the protocol for testing for myocardial bridges with the catheterization. And he's got a handful of hospitals around the country who are now participating in that clinical trial. So that's Dr. Samid Shah, who your doctor Fowler, interventional cardiogelist, reached out to and immediately got a response. So these guys are all communicating to our benefit, which is just so cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, I never thought in a million years that would happen. But that just shows me that there's there's a lot of doctors in this group that are really conversating with each other, finding out what's working, what's not working, what's best practices. And that really put me at ease going on the table because now there was another doctor, which I heard the episode with Dr. Shaw, and I was like, oh man, this is this is like having all the elites in the room at one time, you know, conversating.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yes, yes. So you make your decision now, you're moving forward, you get your provocative test, and what's the result? And what do you do like almost immediately, if I'm not mistaken?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yes. So as I was laying on the table, he kept me awake during the entire procedure. And he said, okay, we'll give you the acetylcholine. And then he found a little bit of endothelial dysfunction. And then he did the demutamine challenge, which raised my heart rate, and we saw that we had a significant flow difference between the top of my LED and below the bridge, that it was blocking, and we only got to 130 beats per minute. And he said, We we don't need to take you any further. This is significant, and the only thing that will fix this is an unroofing. You know, that that's you know, clear as a clear picture.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

So I I want to add too at this point, this is a three-part series. You know, we're just now talking about this Dr. Fowler guy who turns out to be your inventional cardiologist who's doing an extremely thorough job and appropriate way of testing for the bridge. Dr. Fowler will be the next episode following yours, where it'll be the first time we've had this discussion of the provocative test that we hear so much about. And he's going to walk us through it of some of the details that you're speaking of. He'll give us a better understanding of what the significance is and what that means and why they do what they do. But for the benefit of this discussion, I just wanted people to know that we are going to have a very in-depth conversation with Dr. Fowler in the next episode following yours.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, he'll be able to explain it so much better and so much more in depth because it was really neat to see, and I couldn't believe that he kept me awake for it. And he also had other, you know, interns and fellowship people in there because it was one of the first times they were doing these provocative tests on a symptomatic bridge patient. That they they haven't seen that like the way they did it this time. So it was kind of neat, but it was kind of weird seeing all these other people in the room watching it be done.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

So he came to me after, you know, after the procedure, explained to me everything again, because now I was, you know, fully awake, and you know, said, Listen, you know, you got to talk to Dr. Bonatti. You need to schedule this on roofing because that is the only thing that we can see that will help your condition specifically.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

And if I'm not mistaken, you saw Bonatti and you said, okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yep. Yeah, yeah. It was he he could have got me in a little bit earlier, but my wife and I, we go to bike week in Ocean City, Maryland with friends every year. So we scheduled it on September 18th. So that way there I could make sure, you know, we went on our vacation and you know, then went out to Pittsburgh. And it was really nice in Pittsburgh. They have a it's called the uh family house. It's kind of like a Ronald McDonald house for people going to UPMC. And you can stay there, it's 99 bucks a night or so. And that's where Paige stayed every night when I was in the hospital. It was close. They have a shuttle, they made it really convenient. That was one of the other big benefits. Is we we could park the car and we didn't need to get it until I left. It's just all of these little things made this decision the right one for us because the convenience and and everything like that put together just made it so smooth, especially on my wife, you know, because this was hard on her too, seeing me laid up, you know, and not being able to hardly move at first, you know, things like that. Because it was it was pretty intense. As I went for that morning, I ended up, you know, getting the nerve block. Some people get it, some people don't. They say that it probably helped me with pain, you know, through through the thing. But you know, I went in the operating room, they showed me the robot. I was like, wow, this looks pretty cool. And Dr. Benatti will you know talk a lot about that. Then they gave me a little bit of stuff, and boom, next thing I know, woke up, you know, in the ICU. It was about a five or six hour I was in the operating room.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

And you you mentioned Dr. Bernatti now as you you go through the robotic process. Following Dr. Fowler's episode, we're going to have Dr. Bonatti on to talk about the procedure with you and for the benefit of the audience.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah. And he has video.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

And he's going to have some video, yes. So you've you've had your surgery, you had the robotic process, you're you're now in recovery. What's the experience? What are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

So today, as of today, I feel amazing. The process afterwards was a lot harder than I anticipated. Because I read a lot of things with robotic. Oh, it's easy, you recover fast, you know. And coming into the surgery, I was working out every day. I was pushing myself really hard to be in the best physical shape of my life prior to surgery. And what happened in the hospital is I got a little bit too much fluids, went into AFib on the second day. And then, you know, afterwards, once I was discharged, you know, I did blood testing every week I've been doing, and I'm still low in potassium intracellularly. So I had a really tough time with AFib and A-Flutter after the fact.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

No pericarditis, though, correct?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

No, no pericarditis.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

No. So, you know, just with the inflammation of the heart and with the stress, you know, of everything and being over fluid and not eating at the hospital because to be honest, I couldn't eat the hospital food either. It was, you know, really bad for you. I can't believe that they they feed heart patients some of this food. But it was, you know, I took pain pills for the first week. So it wasn't the pain, it was just, you know, I guess the other thing is I'm a very high performer and I'm always moving, always on the go. And for me to sit still, it was it was a big mental challenge. Not as much physically, but meant more mentally. But now going through that process, I'm two months out post-op. And like the last couple days, I've been feeling amazing.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Like, and I do want to address, we because we talked about this AFib situation. You've been going back and forth, you've been getting your blood tested more than the average bear. Most people aren't going to be as aware and wanting to understand everything about what's happening. You know, your potassium, your sodium, your magnesium, all your levels, both intracellularly, which I'm not even familiar with those tests, but you're really digging deep into it and you're actually still working with both Dr. Fowler and Banati in the process of what you're doing and sharing it. And if I'm not mistaken, you actually found an herbal result that worked to help with the AFib.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Yeah. So it's called Wexan W-E-N-X-I-N Granules. It's from China. They've been using it for over 5,000 years as an anti-arrhythmic herb. It's five different herbs that are in it. I can't even pronounce them, so I'm not going to try. But I I read a lot of research, and I actually sent yesterday I sent Dr. Fowler nine research papers, a peer-reviewed studies where they use this herb in conjunction, say with amerodurone or metoborol, to really suppress AFib. And once I was out of A Flutter, I got an A-Flutter and I was in it for about three weeks. I tried the herb and it didn't work. But I had a cardioversion that shocked me out of it about a week and a half ago. And then when I had the AFib episode here, I drank it within 10 minutes. I was out of AFib. And it's it's definitely been working well. I've been drinking it every day just to help suppress the symptoms. I'm still looking for the root cause. And it may be, I may have an adrenal gland or a pituitary problem or something's out of balance still, but it's getting better. But you know, like we I blood test every week. Like we're doing full panels on me every week of, you know, everything from cholesterols to testosterone to DHEA. So I really want to dive deep. And it's it's nice because I have a PCP, the primary care physician, who's local and he's he's a functional guy. So he's all into this. And then I told Dr. Bonotti and Dr. Fowler, and they're like, oh, we want to see the results because no one does this. So it's it's kind of neat sharing because they may be able to help other people going forward. Like, hey, if you have these things, you know, you could do these particular tests and see if this could help you.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Exactly. And and that's why I wanted you to share that. I will put the caveat in there that you are you and the situation for you is different than it will be for anybody else. But to know that there are options and places to go and things to look at and alternatives to something you may be uncomfortable with. Whether or not they work, we we don't know because everybody's individual. You all have unique chemistry and capacity and depth of research and knowledge, of which you've done a great deal. So I don't want this to be misconstrued as medical advice, but if you're listening to what David is saying, the way he's done this, I mean here's somebody that's doing blood tests every week. Here's somebody who has really gone deep in terms of their knowledge and you know, probably smoked his keys for Google search and YouTube search just on every little facet of the condition and then the side effects of the condition and going down some some pretty deep rabbit holes. So if you're not in that space, then maybe this isn't for you. But for somebody who is who really wants to look at it from a holistic perspective, there are some things you can do. And that's not to say that the mechanical thing doesn't get fixed. There's a mechanical issue. If it needs to be fixed, it needs to be fixed. There's there's no no amount of you know herb or supplement that's gonna fix a broken wheel, so to speak. But post that or for mild symptoms, maybe there are options, and you must work with some semblance of the medical community, whether it's your primary care physician or your cardiologist, those are really important. Don't try to do this on your own and think you're gonna solve something because you may make yourself worse.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah, yeah, you got to be really careful. And that's where I'm very fortunate to have a PCP who's so close to me. All of these things also play a massive role in recovery and longevity of you know, functionality of whether it's AFib or anything, outside the mechanical problem with the bridge. Because, you know, you have to take care of yourself. You know, if you have diabetes and you're overweight and you eat processed foods, you are going to have problems that are going to accompany the bridge. Because, like in your show, all the people or a majority of the people were like athletes, like high-performing athletes, and they're watching what they eat and doing this. So if you don't do all those things and eat well, you know, you cannot outperform a bad diet. You can't outpill it either. You know, it will it will come up and catch you. So if you know, if you're going into this, you know, get yourself in really good shape or better shape than you are in now before a surgery or things, and then look at how do you minimize inflammation? Because now, you know, two months post-op, like I feel like I could run, you know, a 50K now. Like I feel I don't get winded anymore. It's so strange that that something that I felt my whole life, as my heart rate increased, I would get winded. And now my heart rate goes to, you know, I had it up to 150 yesterday on purpose. And I didn't have any of that feeling. It was it was really cool knowing that that blockage there, you know, that squeezing isn't there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

And that's what I was hoping you would get to if you didn't. I was gonna ask. You you now just two months out, eight weeks, you you feel better, you recognize that something's changed from what you were dealing with historically and and previously. You your symptoms post-surgery have been relatively mild. I mean, the AFib is a concern, but for the most part, it looks like you've got it under control. And if not, that's a very familiar situation to the doctors. It's not as as aberrant and unfamiliar as a myocardial bridge is. So, you know, to that extent, uh it's just wonderful to hear that today you can say with confidence that you recognize the difference of the surgical process.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Oh, yeah. Um unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

And and the other thing is, you know, for everybody that's listening, you have to advocate for yourself. Never take no. And that's why I like I called every doctor because I wanted to hear what every place would say, what Stanford would say, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, you know, places in New York. Like all these places, I I listen to what they say, and you can always get some good advice, even in a conversation. Yeah, it costs some money to do that, you know, to have all of these meetings and things like that. But this is your life you're talking about. This is, you know, the the rest of your life. If you you space it out, you know, over the next 40, 50 years that you'll be alive, it's it's really minimal. You know, it's it's a few hundred dollars that you have to invest in yourself to be able to move forward. And even dealing with a local cardiologist here, when I went to get my cardioversion, he wrote down that I had a bypass surgery. And that's what it said on my notes. And I'm like, no, I had a call and they're going through all kinds of process to switch it. But I'm like, I didn't have bypass. I had an unroofing. And they're like, what's that? Like a lot of the community doesn't even know inside the cardiology departments, they don't know what a bridge is, they don't know how it functions, they don't know what an unroofing is. They were all very surprised locally here, but that's why I still deal with Dr. Bonatti and Dr. Fowler in Pittsburgh because they understand me, you know, and I can be really honest with them and open. And that's what you need to be able to do. You know, sometimes we may have a disagreement on which path to go down, but ultimately, as the customer, I get to decide. But I want them to know everything that I do so they become more knowledgeable and they may be able to help other people in different situations.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

And I want to compliment you on that because from the very beginning of our discussions, this is pre-surgery, this is pre-doctor, pre provocative test that you and I have been talking. And from the beginning, you said, I want to be able to get to the doctor's situation post surgery and share my story. What a compliment to you to just that that service to others to say, I'm here because I want to be a good idea. Want to make sure that we document this to some degree all the way through. And we've been in conversations literally every step of your journey, which I really applaud you for that. I think that's just a wonderful way to help others. And you know, to the point that you're now educating people in your very own community in the cardiology space to something they they were unaware of. Some of us do have bypasses with the condition, but it is not a bypass by any means, in no way, shape, or form. And so now they're educated. So maybe they will see the symptom come through with a person and go, oh, let's take a look and see if it might be a bridge, now that we understand it a little bit differently. So to everybody that has the condition who gets treated and has the ability to share to make sure another person in the medical community is aware that's one more person that might pick up the symptom in a patient to save that patient all the grief that they're gonna have to try to get this thing diagnosed properly.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Yeah, and I've shared with the local team here too, is all the doctors and nurses I talk to. I'm like, if someone needs their bridge unroofed, you got to go to Pittsburgh. Just because it's so local for us and our insurances work in state, all of those type of things too. So even them knowing just there's an expert that's you know five hours away or four hours away, it's a lot better than saying, I don't know what to do with you.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

You know, that that's kind of the whole point of this whole thing, too.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

I I want to take just a short step back. You're obviously a high-energy guy. You're a get-it-done guy, you you move, move, move, move, move until you find a solution. You're looking for all of that. For the benefit of the others who are listening, yeah, they may not quite be in that same space, but somebody's got a bridge. Maybe they've just been diagnosed. What would you say to them? What would you say about the next steps in the process?

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Definitely talk to as many doctors as you can. Everybody does Zoom calls now. You don't have to go to the office. That's how I was able to talk to 13 different surgeons and then narrow it down because you you can do that relatively quickly, and usually you can really find out quickly. Like I talked to Dr. Kofitis, Dr. Guy, Dr. Henry, Dr. Bonotti all in two weeks. Like I scheduled all of those meetings, they were bouncing around between each other. But it got me where I was like, okay, I like this, I don't like this, I like this, you know, and this. Oh, wait, now I can ask a new question. So it's really about advocating for yourself and you know, listening to literally all of these podcasts because I educated myself in the fact that then I could go to the internet and research different things associated with bridges after I learned the language, the doctors' names, the protocols, all of those types of things. And your website has a lot of the resources that you need. Just don't give up. Don't wait for your doctor to say, oh, go over here. Like all of these doctors, I referred myself to them, every one of them. I didn't need a referral for for anyone. I just called their office and said, I want to be unroofed. And they're like, oh, okay, we'll get you in the system. You know, it's a lot easier than what most people think because I thought I was gonna have a harder time than that, but everyone called me back. But you just go in and say, I want, I want this done. Not necessarily you're gonna have it done, but you say, I want this, and they will set up the appointments and get you in.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

And I think that's the the big thing for anybody to know that you are in control of the situation. Once you've been diagnosed, it's in your hands to the extent of insurance. We certainly understand that as well. But we've even got a gentleman who couldn't get his insurance to get him to where he needed to go. So he went and found a cardiologist in his backyard where he did all the homework for the cardiologist. Certainly they were familiar with you know, bypasses and you know other heart surgeries. And this is not a complex heart surgery per se, but if you don't know it, you don't know it. And so he shared everything he could find with those surgeons and had his unroofing procedure done. It was the first one they had done.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

I would suggest highly if you can get a minimally invasive surgery versus a full strenotomy, like do it. I don't know, you know, you you could speak to where you know you were at in two months after your full strenotomy versus versus me. You know, I maybe you can add some some information on that, but it seems like it's it's it's a lot less intensive than that full strenotype.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah. If you're a candidate, if if you are a candidate for robotic surgery, and and the surgeons will tell you, not everybody can be. In my case, I wasn't. I needed a bypass and some other stuff going on. But if you're a candidate, you know, by all means seriously consider it. You know, that's it's just another option for you. And some people are perfectly comfortable with the astronomy to say, I want him to go in and know and he can see everything, and he, she, whoever the surgeon is, that it's all right there for them and it's it's presented. And if you're comfortable with that, that's fine. It's it's a little bit longer process. The robotic surgery, to your point, it is not painless. And I think people think, oh, this is a piece of cake, it's a whole lot easier. I mean we're still talking about heart surgery number one, but it's not painless. And a thoracotomy is not painless. Anytime you're poking through muscle, you're going to have situations that create pain. But it's in most cases much less. And again, where it's an option, by all means. It gets you back to work, it gets you back to doing things you did a whole lot sooner. And there are different complications that come from the robotic and or more minimally invasive than we see necessarily in sternotomy, and vice versa. Sternotomy has some complications that could occur that you won't necessarily see robotically. But either way, just keep moving forward. Don't give up. I I know you're going to cycle in and out if you're somebody who's in the space still trying to figure out what the best thing to do is, but just keep moving forward. Even if you have a couple of setbacks, even if you get a couple of significant denials, just keep moving forward. And know that while some surgeons do the surgery without a provocative test, that if that's an option for you, if you can get that information, all that information is just more support for the surgeon who's going to do the work and actually unroof the bridge. So the provocative test is an important part. And like I said earlier, thanks to you, David, because of your insistence. I mean, I remember you calling me after you met with both Dr. Fowler and Dr. Bernatti. You said, I talked to them about the podcast. They're going to do it. They want to do it. They're really interested in participating. And you are actually pushing them. And now they are interested in being one of the foremost centers as well, centers of excellence that can provide both the full provocative testing as well as the surgery robotically for unroofing. And we're going to see them doing more and more. And this is because of you.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Well, and you know, when I saw the capabilities of the UPMC Presbyterian in Pittsburgh, it's one of the most state-of-the-art facilities in the country. And coming back to you, you know, get the provocative tests. Like I would not have been unroofed if they would have came back and said that provocative test was negative. Like, because there's no way I would want to go through this if that is not what's causing my symptoms. You know, we we knew 100% that that my bridge was was causing all of my symptoms and you know, my chest pain for my entire life. So, you know, I would highly advise everyone. Yes, it's an extra procedure, but it's usually you go in in the morning and you're going home in the afternoon. You know, your arm's a little sore if they go in your arm, you know, or your groin will be a little sore, you know, where they go in. But that short amount of pain will make you certain that you're making the right decision. I mean, I had all of this evidence, and I remember texting you and saying, Jeff, you know, like, is this really the right decision? You know, because it's it's really scary because it brought in perspective. Like my wife was like, what happens if you die on the table? You know, what's what's gonna happen to the kids and what's gonna happen to me and like all of these things. So it really makes you think because it's a it's a bigger deal than just saying, oh, I'm gonna go get a minimal invasive heart surgery.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Right. Yeah, and I'll I'll add one thing. To the best of my knowledge, at this point in time, and we're talking in November of 2024, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever died on the table, which is really great to hear. You know, everybody's come through it. And it's not the surgery. So don't fear the surgery as much. Don't fear that sternotomy. Don't, don't fear getting you know something done to the extent that some people do. Don't let it paralyze you.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

It's there.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

It's an emotional roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Well, and I I was just gonna touch on that. You just took the words out of my mouth. And say, you know, give us just a little bit. You know, we're we're at the end of your process, and and we want to you know wrap up about here too, but the emotional state. Give me a little bit of your you know, ebb and flow and where you are today now that you're complete.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Yeah. So, you know, prior to surgery, a lot of anxiety, like thinking, but it was more of an excitement anxiety, because what helped me through the process was calling you and then making a commitment to you, like, hey, I want to do the podcast. So now I had to commit to myself that I was gonna go through the entire process. And then when I got my doctors involved, now that's an extra push. I can't back out now because I got them involved. They're excited to do the podcast, which can help a lot of people. So, you know, that's what helped push me to hold me more accountable, you know, pre-surgery, because there's a lot of emotion pre-surgery. Like when you know you have a date, you know, it's it's scary because that's one of the biggest surgeries I've ever had in my life. And, you know, knowing that there's going to be a recovery period, knowing all of these other things, you know, dealing with the AFib on top of the recovery was a lot harder emotionally because I was expecting to be back to the gym at 30 days post-op. I was expecting to be back, you know, doing work and doing these other things. You know, fortunately, I'm a I'm a serial entrepreneur and I have a big team that helps me, but still it really got to me just sitting on the couch and just walking around the house. And there were two days that, you know, one day I was just, I just started crying, you know, and it was like, how do I get out of this? You know, because the AFib and the side where I wasn't able to do what I needed to do, you know, to make me feel better, you know, it just got to me. But then I was like, okay, tomorrow's gonna be a new day. I'm gonna go to bed tonight, get up tomorrow, and keep driving forward and then keep searching. If you're looking for answers, there's always gonna be answers out there, but you got to keep digging, you got to be persistent. And, you know, fortunately for me, I'm my wife tells me I'm the most tenacious person she's ever met. But you know, you have to use some tenacity to keep driving yourself forward because it will get better every day. You know, you're gonna have ups and downs. But, you know, looking back, you know, if you would have asked me two weeks ago, you know, are you certain you would do this again? I would be like, man, I don't know. But now that I'm finally feeling like me, like this morning I woke up, my heart rate was 58, 59. That was what it was pre-surgery, you know, and that's with no drugs, you know, on that. So that's really exciting for me. Like, okay, I'm getting back to where I was pre-op, and now I'm gonna be in better shape. Now I'm gonna be able to do more as things go forward. So it's just keeping that mindset and using like Jeff or your doctors to hold you accountable because you make them a promise that you want to do something, you got to go through with it.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

It's like stating that goal. You know, you you tell somebody the more people you tell, the more likely you are to hold on to it.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

You are the only person who days before you're going into surgery calls me as if you're going to the Super Bowl tomorrow. With the enthusiasm and excitement of, I can't wait. I'm going in. Dr. Banai's going to da-da-da-da-da-da. And I have to laugh because I think it's that positivity and it's that energy and not letting the negativity set in to where we're going through with this, it's going to be a good thing. And while I may have some challenges and my trend line may not be straight up, when I come out of this, for the most part, I should be better. And the majority of people who have gone through the process end up in a better place than they were prior. So, you know, I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate your enthusiasm because it motivates me to do what we do too. And I and I want to share that as a result of your journey, both your wife's and your journey, hers with her cancer, yours with your myocardial bridge, you now have a program, a website, and a podcast that you're going to called the Vulmer Journey.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

You want to tell us just a quick little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yeah, it's just I'm putting together episodes. You know, I we did one episode so far just on my wife's cancer, and it was back in March. And then I kind of been putting it off because of my journey and hers. We got too much stuff going on. But now what I'm going to do is I'm going to talk about everything that we did specifically for her cancer, how we did it all unconventional. You know, all she had a surgery and no other, no chemo, no radiation, no immune therapy, everything with naturopathic approaches and with scientifically backed approaches that aren't used in mainstream. And same with myself. Everything that I did for my bridge, for my AFib is all scientifically documented in PubMed, in the NIH, in other journals, but it's not used by mainstream. So I want to just bring those options up and show people there's a lot of alternatives out there that can allow you to get to your goal without pharmaceuticals. And if you have bad reactions to pharmaceuticals, there's different ways that you can you can do this. You know, and it even coming down to the diet, we're going to talk about how we how we prep, how we do everything. So what my podcast is going to be is about.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

I want to remind everybody that, again, if you don't subscribe to the podcast, do because post this episode, the very next week, we're going to have Dr. Fowler who is going to talk to us about the provocative test, you know, what this invasive catheterization is, all the details of it. You mentioned a couple of the chemicals. He'll explain it, he'll explain why we do it, how we do it, and what the purpose of it is. And then following that, we're going to speak with Dr. Bonatti, your robotic surgeon, and it'll be specific to your case, to where people can say, okay, now I understand. I heard from that guy, and now I'm going to hear from his doctor. And I think it's just going to be, you know, one of the first times we've had the sequence of patient to process to surgery of all three of the people that were on that team. So I'm really excited about it. I can't thank you enough, Dave, for putting this together. Because you you're the one that did this all the way through. You said, I want to be able to share this. I want to make sure the doctors understand it. I want the doctors to be able to share it. And you held them accountable to say, yes, when you went in there and said, if I'm going to do this, I want you to be, I want you to come on the podcast. You have to share this because everybody needs to hear it. And it's it's just so refreshing to see the the you know the interest and the enthusiasm and the energy post-surgery now as you're healing. You're still you know, it's a 12-week process, really. You're two months into it. And I'm thrilled to hear how you're doing and the fact that you've got this AFib under control, which is not an unusual situation. Post-surgery, all kinds of things can happen because it's a it's a it's heart surgery. But I just so appreciate you and what you're doing for all of us as well. And I will put all the information on your journey program in the show notes so people can just grab the link and and get to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Yeah, and if anybody wants to get a hold of me, you know, they can just it's David at the Volmerjourney.com and and I'm sure you'll put you'll post that out there. I will. One one of the benefits with Dr. Benotti and Dr. Fowler is they're gonna present all of my info. Like, and and I did hold them accountable for that because I told them prior to doing it, like, hey, we want to do this on the podcast. And when Dr. You know, Fowler, that's why he did such detailed notes, and he's he's gonna show everybody exactly what went on and how the measurements were, how the flow was, all these things. And then Dr. Bonatti, I remember him waking me up in the ICU and saying, David, David, your heart looks so good. And I got everything on film, you know. So that was exciting to me because he was so excited that they recorded everything, knowing that they were gonna bring it out and present it to people and show people so you can really get the detail, where most of the time they don't, it's it's always in hindsight. You want to go back and you may have not have done something because you didn't think about it, because it wasn't gonna be used in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Yeah, it's not many patients that say, I want you to see everything that happened to me. So I've seen both Dr. Fowler's pieces that he's going to share that are incredible. And I've seen the snippet that Dr. Banati is going to talk about, which is incredible. And it's from my perspective, it's nice to be able to see it because you can then mentally see what's happening to you. And when you go into your surgery, you can visualize how to heal yourself. And and I don't mean literally, but visualization and that thought process is a holistic way to help your body heal. So I can't wait for the next couple of episodes. I was so excited to get to this one with you today. I know it's been almost a year and in coming, and here we are starting from symptomatic to post-unroofing procedure, and then now the the storytelling along the way that's going to bring it all together for the next couple of episodes. David, thank you so much. I appreciate you, your time, and and everything you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

No, I really appreciate you and and the whole community. I mean, the Facebook page, you know, I'm in there commenting a lot, and a lot of people bring a lot of great ideas and and thoughts and their stories to that. So that's what helps everybody through this. Because if it wouldn't have been for you, the group, and the website, you know, I would have known nothing and I wouldn't have known how to fix this. So I I really appreciate everything that you guys have put together here. It's it's really great.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Looking forward to the next episode. Thanks, David. All right, thanks. Thank you for listening to Imperfect Heart. It's my hope that this information helped in some way to improve your situation or will help you better understand this condition. More importantly, that it gives you hope through stories that there is help and you most certainly are not alone. If you've been diagnosed with a myocardial bridge, please be sure to join the private Facebook group, Myocardial Bridge Support Group. For more information about our program or to reach me directly, visit the website, myimperfectheart.com. If you like what you heard today, please give a positive review, thumbs up, high five, whatever your app likes. And be sure to share with everyone important to you so they understand what it is you're dealing with. Please subscribe as well. Welcome each day with gratitude and positivity. The views and opinions expressed in this program are solely those of the host and the guest, and are not intended to provide, nor are they a suitable substitute for professional care by a doctor, therapist, mental health professional, or other qualified medical professional. Imperfect Heart is a production of Hear Me Now Studio.