An Unbelievable Journey of Friendship, Advocacy and Hope.

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Just a quick reminder before we get started that the book is now available at Amazon.com, Imperfect Heart, Stories of Myocardial Bridges. Buy it for anybody who doubts that this condition is symptomatic.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

There might be some people out there who can live with this and accept things as they are. Part of getting old, but your quality of life really changes. And I don't really want to accept that. I mean, I think there's a lot of good years still ahead that I can do certain things. I love traveling, and for my job, I have to travel. So if you have these issues, then that kind of eliminates the whole aspect of traveling because you're just not able to do some of the things you would need to do when you're traveling.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

The person I'm going to be speaking with is much more than a guest. Much more than one of our Milocardio Bridge Facebook friends. It happens to be one of my best friends. And I know you're probably thinking, why is Jeff bringing out one of his best friends? Well, it's probably because he wants to talk about how it's important to reach out and not try to deal with this journey alone. And you would be partially correct. Only you're probably thinking about how this gentleman, my friend, supported me during my journey. And that's not the case. Not that he didn't support me, but that's not what we're going to talk about. We know that roughly one in four people have this condition, right? Twenty-five percent of the population is estimated to have a myocardial bridge, maybe more. Think about that stat for just a minute. How many friends do you have? You see where I'm going? Mark Davis is joining me on this episode. He's been on this journey now for nearly three years. And a lot of it's going to be familiar to many of you. As an executive with our local airport, he's required to travel a lot. All over the world. And wherever he travels, it's expected that he is going to be able to do all the things that are expected of a guest to the respective countries he visits. He's representing us. You'll hear about what that looks like today and how it's changed from what it used to be like for him. And not unlike many of us who have been there and many of you who are there now, he's on the last leg of this journey about to be needing to make some decisions. To me, it's incomprehensible that one of the very same people I was sharing my story with three years ago, somebody who was supportive, concerned, and involved in my well-being, is now on the exact same receiving end of my concern. This not only could happen to anyone listening, but likely will. You're going to find his story compelling as we discuss where he's been, where he's at, and what his next steps are. And yes, he's been recently diagnosed with a myocardial bridge. Mark Davis, welcome to Imperfect Heart.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Thanks, Jeff. It's uh it's kind of strange being here with you since uh uh we know each other for a long time, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I totally agree. This is one of the more unique episodes I'll ever do, and I would be remiss if I didn't say that it isn't a bit emotional for me to even be having the conversation with you. As our listeners already know from the introduction, you are a dear, dear friend. And there's two things I want to reiterate as we begin the conversation, and that is that this disease affects one in four humans on average. One in four, twenty-five percent. Meaning it's really likely that every single one of us knows somebody with a myocardial bridge. And the second part of that is the condition is gender, race, and ethnicity agnostic. It doesn't care who you are, where you're from, or what you look like. I mean, whoever would have thought that somebody in my inner circle of close friends, you of all people, somebody who supported me on my journey both pre and post-surgery, would end up with the very same condition at about the same age with a similar diagnosis. And the difference between our symptoms is really the distinction of the two. And by the way, our race, for those of you listening and not watching, Mark is African American. So I I'm truly blown away by the fact that you and I are even having this conversation because it's really hard for me to believe, as you said, you bet we are. You know, what are the odds? Exactly. Yep. Let's go back a couple of years to where you first began recognizing something was wrong and you were actually sharing it with me. Tell me it's almost three years ago now, right? It's been about three years, yes. Exactly. Tell me a little bit about what was going on.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Well, I I I remember uh vividly when you when you informed me and some of our other friends about what you were going through, it w it was sort of strange that me knowing you how you are, such an athlete and all the things you've done to see that you were going through this and all the symptoms. Then as we were talking, and and when I started developing my symptoms, you're the ones who came out and said, I think we might have the same thing. But it was really strange because knowing you, and you were training at the time, I believe, for the ta the Tahoe death ride. Right. Right. And and you started having all these these little mini heart attacks, and it was really, really strange. And it was very, very I was very concerned. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

And I remember it took us a while to get to the point where I even thought you might have something like me because you were describing your symptoms. You know, what were they initially when you first started recognizing something was wrong?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So I I remember it was uh right when uh when we were going COVID first uh started, and just to get out of the house and be amongst people, there was a few people I worked with who said, let's go out for runs. And so, you know, I was I was a runner. I mean, I wasn't a marathon type guy, but I could run a 10K. And uh and I was at one time training for a half a marathon. So we started running, and I remember like the first quarter of a mile is having these pains. At first, I thought it was like these pains you get in your side when you first start running. Then I realized, no, it was across my chest. And it was like, I can't, I can't even run a mile. This is crazy. But I tried and kept trying running. Then eventually I just couldn't do it. And so that's that was basically my symptoms, this massive pain across my chest that that it would not go away when I was moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And it continued to deteriorate, right? And because I I recall and keep checking up on you and saying, what are you doing? Are you you are you going to the doctor? Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah, initially it it started, it wasn't as bad. I mean, I I would run and I would get through a couple miles, but still not easily. Now, as you say, it progressively has gotten worse, and I can't run at all. I do walk, I try to walk. Like, for example, on Sunday I went for a walk, a three-mile walk. The first mile, it was very, very painful. Then eventually it goes away. I don't understand that, but that's what happens.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

When you started the process of investigating with doctors, obviously you went to your primary care, you've gone through a litany of things, and this is not going to sound unfamiliar to any of our audience. They're gonna go, oh, yes, yes, yes. Tell me where you started and what you've been through to date. And if you forget some of the sequence, I remember some of it. So I'll pop in.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

So yeah, because it's been you know three years, some of the things I forget, but I remember going to my primary care physician. I love this guy. He he listens, he takes your advice, and he so if I say, you know, it's what's going on, can I go get this? He's very open to that. So so we we had the conversation. He said, Well, it might be it might be a lung problem. So I went to a pulmonary specialist and did tests there, couldn't find anything. I uh then I went to a cardiologist, and uh we did, you know, had the chest x-rays, did did uh x-rays and ct scans. So the cardiologist says, okay, we can do an angiogram. So okay, he says, you know, but there's risks. So we did the angiogram, come back, my arteries are clear. My he says, my heart is healthy. I don't want to see you again. I said, then I asked him, well, what about a myocardial bridge? He says, I don't even want to discuss that. And that was it. Go back to the doctor, he says, okay, well, maybe it's a gastro problem. So I went to a gastroendologist and did tests there. And you know, I had a little reflex problems, but nothing that would cause the the chest pain that I was experiencing when I when I actually uh ran or walked. And so, you know, that's where I went went back and had some other tests done. I uh it was this CAT scan that that elevated your heart while you were in the I forget what it's called, but that's where the lexic scan. Yes, the lexican, that's exactly what. And yeah, couldn't find anything there either. So I went to a new cardiologist. She had never heard of a Mario Carthage. But she said, I'll refer you to one of the uh witness, he's considered one of the uh very respected doctors in in town. So I finally got in to see him. We had a nice discussion. So he said, Okay, we'll do an angirogram. Uh angirogram, kind of provocative, but not with all the tests. So did the angiogram. There he found a few things, but nothing that he could describe as a Monte Otario bridge. And that happened about three months ago, and that's where we are right now. Well, you did all these tests, he still kept finding.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

You did have that CT with contrast that has now clarified the fact that you do have a bridge.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yes. Right now, yes, exactly. So so the the radiologist came back and said that there was some reduced blood flow in the artery there, which he kind of described as a modern collar bridge. But the problem is getting cardiologists to quite understand exactly what that all means.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah, and to fess up on it too, to say, yeah, that really is. I'm gonna share with our listeners for a second, because you sent me that first CT scan with contrast description, and I didn't understand it. I said, I don't it just doesn't make any sense to me. Right. The key line that it goes, I'm gonna explain here, the left anterior descending, some mild calcified plaque in the proximal LED without evidence of stenosis, which is very typical, where that's where the artery is entering into the heart. 100% of the time there's either a bit of plaque buildup or some narrowing. Then it goes on to say the LAD does not have any bridged segment. However, the main diagonal branch does penetrate the myometrium compatible with a bridged segment of the first diagonal branch. I'm thinking, okay, well, that means the LAD has a branch which is still significant that is bridged. But I don't understand what's this myometrium? I've never heard of it. I think I better so I look it up and mark, my dear male friend, you have a uterus. Right, exactly. The myometrium is the tissue of the uterus. And I'm like, dude, something's really, really wrong here.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

We gotta you gotta go back there and figure out what what are they saying. So that's right. I remember that now. So I went back, I sent an email to the uh radiologist and to the uh to the hospital and said, this is completely wrong. And very shortly afterwards, the radiologist went back in and updated his his findings. And they they made an excuse. Well, he's extremely busy, and but he came back and said, then he came back and said, Yeah, there is a serious uh issue here. And I did I share that with you, that the the second one? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yes, yeah, and and that's the good news because the second one, the first one was about a page and a half of just a lot of blah blah and maybe three lines about the possibility and a little bridged segment. The second one comes back and it's four pages. It's really in-depth. And on the second one that I'll read is the LED at the level of the cardiac apex, just proximal to the wraparound segment, which is another issue that you've got, has significant reduction in flow. And on the angiogram images has a narrowed segment, which is just beyond the last diagonal branch, which is where they said that there is the myocardial bridging. Yes. So the good bad news was when I read that it was like, oh my gosh, you have what we have.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yes. Yes, I remember you telling me that you said yes. And there is a very significant chance that you have what you have.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Right. And I was relieved to say, hey, I think we found your issue, but I was you know quite saddened really to say, oh my gosh, you have the same thing. And uh again, the odds of that uh would seem so strange, but again, one in four of us, 25 percent, you got four friends, one of you uh has a bridge in some shape or form. Now that you've been diagnosed, you're into what many of us recognize as the next step of the journey. The great news is you know what the issue is. Yes. And now it's to to the next steps. What most recently now, where are you? What's happening?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So I went back after the I actually had the um the second angiogram, I go back to the referring cardiologist, and she said, Well, because she had told me that if I was not happy with the results, she would refer me to Stanford, which I asked. Or and so she came back and said, Okay, I will refer you to Stanford. So about a week later, I get a call from her office indicating that the referral was denied. They want me to go back to my to the doctor who did the second angiogram. Because I would not go back to the first doctor who said I don't know if I could talk about that. I have not made the appointment yet, but I plan on hopefully trying to get to see him next week to let him know what the issues have been and if he could refer me. Because as you know, here in Sacramento, the the hospitals are not set up to do all the testing for a Meyer Callior Bridge. Right. And so I want to see where this progressed. You know, and like a lot of your listeners, people who have who I know you've talked to and all, they have issues trying to get into these hospitals, and they're very expensive. So if I can't get through Stanford, then I'm gonna try to make arrangements to to pay for it myself.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And we've got a couple of situations. You're you're from Ohio, which is not too far from Pennsylvania. You're right. If need be, you could go back and go to UPMC and and maybe somebody like Dr. Fowler could see you. Exactly. You know, from his provocative test process. Obviously, Stanford's the closest. We're in Northern California, so so that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, my just I was gonna say my doctor, uh the the cardiologist who did the second uh angiogram, he actually watched part of that segment with Dr. Fowler. And he did tell me that he that's where he did his training at university at Pittsburgh uh medical center. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Well, the good news there, Mark, is that there's some credibility then he can relate and say, okay, well, that's probably a pretty good doc. It's a pretty pretty good program. And the reality is that what he's doing is beneficial, and we need to get you into that space. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So that's where that's where I stand right now. It's uh, you know, I know a lot of your uh people who are who listen to you and have commented, it gets a little frustrating because you know you think you're somewhat of an athlete, but you can't do the things that we know age does catch up with you, but still there's some things that I should be able to do without uh experiencing this this chest pain.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Well, and to your point, you travel a lot, and part of that travel changes the dynamic of you know atmosphere and elevation, and there's a lot of walking in many cases for for what you do. That is stressful.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yes. Yeah, that rebrings me up to another point. I just returned, I was two weeks ago, I was over in Europe, I was in the the Czech Republic for a conference. And from the hotel to the conference center, which was in a a an old castle that was, and most castles are at the top of a hill. I had to walk. It was I guess it was about a football field and a half, if you, you know, from from from the bottom to the top. And I had to stop halfway through just to catch my breath and and and have the pain sort of alleviate somewhat uh before I could continue on, which is again it's just mind-boggling at this point in life to figure out I have to stop walking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Especially when you you are in good shape, have been in good shape. Sure. You recognize your conditioning, and here you are in good shape, unable to do uh you know a flight of stairs in some cases. I even remember you telling me you were walking through the airport once and had to stop just because the pain got so severe. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yep. Unfortunately, sometimes I have to avoid walking upstairs. I I I still walk downstairs, but like in in the airport environment, I uh I will take an elevator up, but I will walk down. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

And the good news for you is, and it could be because of the the way the bridge is and your particular makeup of the heart and the arteries, you're not in a debilitated state yet. And your deterioration hasn't been incredibly rapid like it has been for some of us. So you've got this benefit of time as you're working through the solution to find what really is going to be the best result for you. And that's a that's a plus. So that's that's one thing. On the other side of it, what is it you worry about at this point?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Aaron Powell Well, there's a couple of things I worry about, and I think a lot of people would have probably the same same concerns. Number one is will I be able to find someone who understands exactly what's going on and can this be resolved? That's one. But the other thing is also, you know, I actually live alone. So I sometimes I'm worried that, well, what if I just drop? And you know, how long will it take someone to find me? That's a concern, which I don't think no one wants to be worried about that. But that yeah, that is. I think the the but the most important thing is will the medical establishment recognize this myocardial bridge and will they start, you know, acting upon good science that's already out there. And uh and it was kind of hard to understand why some cardiologists know about this and understand it, and why others either they don't want to know about it or they just haven't found it out about it yet.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Right. And I I think we all agree with you on that one. It's what is going on when there's so much evidence to support our cases. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

So when you have rec rectable uh institutions like Stanford and uh University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and uh and Cleveland Clinic and all these other places that know about it and and recognize it, why don't other doctors believe it?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, and I I want to reiterate the point that you made about people who are lone alone. That's that's a big deal if if you have the condition to be certain that you have some contacts that are aware that if you go dark for a day or some reasonable amount of time, depending on your age, to check in. You know, even if it's just a phone call or a text, or if you have a 911 button on your phone to some friends that you can just hit, you're right, you know, the likelihood of it being catastrophic is is slim, at least to the best of our understanding. Okay. But it would be my contention that there are people who only have the symptom occur once, never knew it was a severe blockage, and that blockage was right at the point where the artery went into the heart, and maybe they had some mild symptoms but didn't really know. And the next thing you know, that blockage breaks free. They have a a massive clotting situation and it's over. Right. Yes. That's the unfortunate part. The good news is you're aware. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, I remember you telling me that you you were it was such a such a debilitating situation for you. You could hardly walk from one side of the room to the other. That is that that was mind-blowing. And because especially me knowing what type of uh athlete you have always been, it's kind of was really scary.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

I'll take that as a compliment. Yes. I certainly don't think of myself that way, but but you know, yeah, I I agree with you to think that so quickly something like that could happen. Right. And everybody's journey is different. And that's the significance of your journey because people are out there who think, oh well, it's it's fine. It's not that bad. It's getting a little bit worse, and every year it gets a little bit worse. But there's a point when the two things come to a cross in the roads where you're At a certain age where it gets really difficult to have the surgery because you're so much older. Right. And then you are debilitated because the situation never cures. It has to be addressed medically either through medication and or a surgical process. Something has to happen or it will continue to deteriorate.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, I think, you know, there there might be some people out there who can live with this and accept things as they are. You know, it's part of getting old. But I mean, the quality of your quality of life really changes if that's what you accept. And I I don't really want to accept that. I mean, I think there's a lot of good years still ahead that I can do certain things. And, you know, I like you said, I love traveling, and and my and for my job, I have to travel. So if if you have these these issues, then that kind of eliminates the whole aspect of traveling because you're just not able to do some of the things you would need to do when you're traveling.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Well, and you're my tour guide, so I need you around for a long time. Yes. You can tell me, you can tell our audience, you certainly are the first person who is involved in travel that I've spoken with. So you might get some some direct messaging through Facebook about, gee, Mark, if I'm looking at this as a celebration, or maybe I'm going to Greece for my surgery, or maybe I'm going to Pakistan for my surgery. Is there something I can wrap into that as we uh as we get things taken care of?

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Oh, yeah, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

So what would you say to others who are in a similar situation as yourself? Because you are now part of our collective. You will find that this is an incredibly supportive group and everybody's there for everybody else. What would you say for those people who are just orienting today? You're three years into journey, your journey, and you've been identified, so now your process is just getting a solution and understanding the severity of your condition. How about somebody who's maybe just in the middle or just starting?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Well, you know, our our medical system here can be very onerous and very complicated. And a lot of people accept what they're told initially and go from there. I would say never give up. Uh, keep pressing the head. If you can't get uh what you're looking for from one physician, find someone else who will listen to you and at least help you go through this journey. And again, with the Facebook group, that's probably uh a godsend to a lot of people. Uh the fact that they have someone that understands what they're going through. And a lot of times we go through things and you feel alone, but with this, you don't have to be alone. So I would say, you know, with you, what you have done with this group is just amazing. So I think I've always complimented you on what you have done with this to help people feel that there's a way out. So and and so I want to thank you again here on online like this for what you have done.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Well, if I ever thought that you would be a fan of the podcast, because typically it appeals to people who are symptomatic. Right. And here you are, symptomatic.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Symptomatic, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Would have been the last thing I ever would have thought of.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I would, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

If all things, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yes. You are so close, Mark, to a resolution. I wish I could move it forward for you. You're you're just at that point, and I'm anxious for you to get that provocative test because I want to hear what comes back, you know, what the severity of the blood flow restriction is. You have some other complicating conditions with the you know, the wraparound artery and some of the other arteries that seem to have a little bit of bridging going on. So it's gonna be really interesting to see what comes back. But I think when you do get it, it's gonna reveal so much. And whomever that doctor is that ends up doing the testing for you is gonna be able to give you a really clear outcome and read on what the next steps should be based on that blood flow restriction and the severity of what's happening because you are symptomatic. That's a big plus. And it's only a matter of time. You'll get there to your point of being really persistent and unfortunate. And we do have to have some patience as we go through it, just worth it. How are you staying positive?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Well, I just get myself involved in other things. I'm involved in a lot of community activities, uh, have had really good friends, uh family. And you know, it's just uh I've always had to be kind of positive in my life. I mean, I've really never been a sort of a down downer type guy. So, you know, there's you can you can find you can find uh positive things in a lot of things. So you just have to. I mean, it's it's like uh it's like solving a puzzle almost, you know. You got to take some sort of joy in that. So that's what I do. I mean, I have no other choice, you know? Yes. But one thing I I forgot to mention about about the doctor who did my second angiogram, because I think I've heard you mention before about the treatment possibilities, either surgery or they sometimes maybe try to treat it too medically, you know. So my doctor has put me on the beta blocker, but I it hasn't I have no change whatsoever. The only thing I've noticed is that my heart rate has dropped quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, that's something you're gonna watch too. You don't want it to get so low because then your blood pressure will come down with it, and the next thing you know, you're you're dripping and falling and falling right exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

So but anyway, I'm yeah, I'm a positive guy. Plus, I get to know people like you.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Well, brother, I get to know people like you, and it is it's it's certainly my privilege. You know, I'm here to support you however, however I can, whenever I can. And anything you need, I'm here for you. Let's get you to Stanford, let's get you to to Pittsburgh, let's just get this thing identified, and we will share the results through the program as well, so people know, hey, what's going on with that Mark guy? I mean, we were really curious because his situation was just like mine.

unknown 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

You know, you know, you you have been extremely positive through all this too, man. Some especially what you went through, but you know, you have a you have a great family, great wife, great kids. So I know them, and and that really, really helps when you have something like that on your side.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

No, I couldn't couldn't agree with you more. It it makes all the difference in the world. Yes. And we need people around us. Yes. He's gonna get through this alone. Yes. Yeah. You can't reiterate that enough. You will not, you cannot get through this alone.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, I I I have family members who contact me all the time about asking what I how I'm doing. And I have a really, really close friend that I grew up with. Uh, we've been friends for uh 55, 60 years. And so, yeah, he contacts me all the time, makes sure I'm doing I'm doing well. So good.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Well, Mark, I can't thank you enough. I truly, truly appreciate it. And and while I am saddened that it's somebody I know so well that has the condition that who knew, right? Right. What I'm really happy about is that it's something I can help you through.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

And I'm you know, I hate seeing you go through that, but I tell you, without you going through this, there is no way in the world I would have known this. And you know, and I look at you as a as a person who's come and saved me, so I I really appreciate it.

unknown 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Just remember that when I need something, okay?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Okay, chill.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Always uh there are so many others who they're paying attention to this. And what you've just done by sharing your story has given them hope. You're helping others by continuing to keep us informed with what you're doing. And obviously, I I want the best for you. And and we'll be able to identify that as we go through the process for those few steps that you've just got left and get you to a conclusion on it. So from the bottom of my imperfect heart, my friend, thank you so much for doing this.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Well, thank you very much, uh, Jeff, for having me on. And I hope to come back later and tell you that everything's been has been uh resolved. Let's hope sooner than later, right? Right, exactly. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Thanks. Thanks, everyone. Thank you for listening to Imperfect Heart. It's my hope that this information helped in some way to improve your situation or will help you better understand this condition. More importantly, that it gives you hope through stories that there is help and you most certainly are not alone. If you've been diagnosed with a myocardial bridge, please be sure to join the private Facebook group, Myocardial Bridge Support Group. For more information about our program or to reach me directly, visit the website myimperfectheart.com. If you like what you heard today, please give a positive review, thumbs up, high five, whatever your app likes. And be sure to share with everyone important to you so they understand what it is you're dealing with. Please subscribe as well. Welcome each day with gratitude and positivity. Imperfect Heart is a production of Hear Me Now Studio.